Obama Birth Certificate Federal Lawsuit: Updates, News and Reactions
If you're new to DBKP, you may want to subscribe to the DBKP.com RSS feed. Thanks for stopping by!
Obama Birth Certificate:
UPDATES
Federal Lawsuit, Berg v. Obama - Jeff Schreiber, Phillip Berg, More Questions, Comments from Readers, GOP Holding Out?
In a post as long as yesterday’s Obama Birth Cerificate Federal Lawsuit: The Curious Behavior of the Obama Campaign, there’s lots of stuff which gets left on the “cutting room floor”.
We’ve collected a bit of it in this morning’s UPDATES. Others have covered this for months and have a long list of archived stories. Readers interested in various aspects of the Obama citizenship debate may wish to check them out. They’re listed at the end of this post.
Obama Birth Certificate - UPDATE
Follow up to: Obama Birth Cerificate Federal Lawsuit: The Curious Behavior of the Obama Campaign, Oct. 9 2008.
Readers wishing to stay abreast of current happenings in the Obama birth certificate/citizenship case in US District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia) would be wise to bookmark Jeff Schreiber’s America’s Right site.
Schreiber’s a legal writer/reporter during the day, but then changes into his blogger’s costume at night: he’s located near the court and brings a lot of things, not the least which is knowledge of the case, to the table. America’s Right was the site which first reported the Berg v. Obama lawsuit in August.
It’s also the site where we first discovered a report on the federal suit.
Latest on the suit from America’s Right: Berg v. Obama Update - October 9 2008: Berg Files Response to Defense Motion for Protective Order.
Schreiber’s been all over this story from the beginning and it shows.
Schreiber’s view seems a lot like our own. While he’s conservative, he’s also skeptical of some claims made in the Berg suit (perjury), but curious about the questions Berg raised.
Questions which have not been answered, to date.
The Obama birth certificate story is a lot like the John Edwards scandal: it’s hard to get everything of interest in one post. An attempt was made yesterday to bring readers who had not heard about the case “up to speed”.
A trip through Scheiber’s archives on the subject, located on the site’s right sidebar, will give readers all there is to know about the court case itself.
Also see:
* BERG v. OBAMA UPDATE — TUES., OCT. 7: INTERVENING PARTY FILINGS, AND POSSIBLE MEDIA ATTENTION
* TWO FILINGS: Berg Files Motion for Leave to File Amended Complaint, Obama and DNC File Motion to Delay Discovery Until Judge Decides on Prior Motion to Dismiss
More from Phillip Berg
In the wrap to yesterday’s article here on the Federal Lawsuit in which Phillip Berg is asking Barack Obama to provide proof of U.S. citizenship, we left a few things out.
A couple of items we asked Mr. Berg in our phone conversation didn’t make the article. Readers may be interested, so we’ll include them here. They include the coverage Berg v. Obama has (not) received in the MSM, among other things.
MONDO: What has been the reaction of the Mainstream Media to this lawsuit? This sounds like a big story: a presidential candidate has balked at providing proof of citizenship. Have you been contacted by any MSM organizations?
PHILLIP BERG: There’s been no reaction because they haven’t covered it. There’s been some interest, but nothing so far.
MONDO: What were your reasons for filing the lawsuit.
BERG: I filed the suit because I believe the Democratic National Committee hasn’t performed its duties. I believe that the Republicans know about this and will bring it up right before the election. There may be time for the DNC to substitute someone on the ballot, but there may not be.
[The phrase "constitutional crisis" was discussed at this point.]
MONDO: You’re alone on this. How could someone help you if they wished?
BERG: Get the word out on this. If enough people hear about it, it might create some pressure.
Maybe someone will do some investigating.
Resources Readers Can Use
Readers interested in the history of the Obama birth certificate debate can consult the following:
* Atlas Shrugged: Debunking FactCheck.org’s original Obama BC, as well as the second FactCheck.org “fact check. Also debunked the “horrible forgery” that the DailyKOS offered as ‘proof’.
* Yid With Lid: Assisted greatly with the digital examinations of the various photos provided by FactCheck.org. A lot of original work on the subject.
* Texas Darlin: Continuing coverage of the birth cerificate/citizenship issue. Does some original research. Asks excellent questions.
* America’s Right: Excellent continuing coverage of the Federal case, Berg v. Obama.
Did the GOP Uncover an Obama Birth Certificate in Kenya?
Some good research into several of the citizenship issues were found at What’s Your Evidence. The site’s only agenda, upon first inspection, appears to be fact checking.
They discount the Indonesian citizenship issue, leave open the place of birth issue and leave open the citizenship issue in its totality.
From What’s Your Evidence?, “Was Obama Born in Kenya? Is Obama a Kenyan Citizen?”
“[Madsen reported that the GOP] … located a Certificate Registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr. at a Maternity Hospital, to his father, a Kenyan Citizen and his mother, a U.S. Citizen. ”
GOP dirty tricks operatives dispatched to Kenya …. believe they have found a “smoking gun.” In this case, it is a birth certificate from the Kenyan city of Mombasa registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr., on August 4, 1961.
However, the registration is a common practice in African countries whose citizens abroad have families with foreign nationals. Obama was born in Honolulu, Hawaii, to his Ann Dunham of Wichita, Kansas, and Barack Obama, Sr., of Nyangoma-Kogelo, Kenya.
–Wayne Madsen, “GOP dirty tricks machine readies a charge that Obama is not eligible to be president,” OnlineJournal.com (June 8, 2008).NOTES: We have not yet found evidence to support or refute Madsen’s contention that such registration is a common practice.
“[Did the GOP, in fact, locate a Certificate Registering the birth of Barack Obama, Jr. at a Maternity Hospital, to his father, a Kenyan Citizen and his mother, a U.S. Citizen?]”
Although we can find no evidence that the GOP located a Kenya “certificate registering the birth” of Obama (other than Madsen’s unsourced assertion), political parties may elect to withhold information until a time they deem politically expedient. Thus, it is possible that the GOP located such information and just has note yet released it. Thus, we do not know whether this statement is true or not.
Interesting.
Doug Ross: Obama Campaign Admits He was a Citizen of Kenya
READERS’ COMMENTS
In yesterday’s story, Obama Birth Cerificate Federal Lawsuit: The Curious Behavior of the Obama Campaign, from the comments section:
* Robert, Phantom’s Lair: “Sounds just like Kerry and his second DD-214 which has never appeared, even to the day.”
* Crippy, Crippy’s World: “What’s will happen if he is elected then it is revealed that was in fact born in Kenya? Also, did you hear about Obama suing Citibank on behalf of Acorn under the CRA?
Obama Sued Citibank On Behalf of Radical Group ACORN
* Bob V: “There is nothing “curious” about hiring a lawyer and moving to dismiss a silly suit like this one. And, by the way, the court did NOT order Obama to do anything. The purported document circulating on the internet is not a court order but a proposed order submitted by the plaintiff as required by local rules. This lawsuit will meet a quick and deserved dismissal, but I’d rather have you guys focus on nonsense like this instead of addressing the issues the American people care about in the worst economic crisis since the depression. That’s why “That One” is headed for a landslide victory on November 4th.”
[NOTE: We amended our post to reflect that it was the court filing of Phillip Berg which wanted the documents and not the judge in the case, who has not ruled on any of the motions yet--and we apologized for that inaccuracy.]
* Sister Rosetta, Rosetta Sister: “I don’t know what to think. Can this be?”
“Berg Files Response to Defense Motion for Protective Order” Phil Berg v Barack Obama
”
* Chicago Joe [referring to Bob V]: “Hey Drama queen… the ecomony of 1980 1981 was far worse then our current condition. The One is heading for a landslide victory because too many people have their fingers in their ears and the media will not do its job. There is nothing wrong with asking for proof of their citizenship. You or I would have to do the same thing if we ran.”
* LBG: “Nice job of moving the goal posts, Bob. You say “silly lawsuit”, we say this is a matter of public interest. As we mentioned before, the rest of us have to do it, why not Obama? Have nice day, Bob.”
* Russell: “I had heard about the rumors involving Barack Obama’s birth certificate since the summer, but assuming they were petty right-wing nonsense, I never bothered checking up on them. I happened to stumble-upon this site (strangely enough, using (Firefox’s Stumble-Upon feature), and spent the requisite time to read the entire saga from prologue to epilogue. My original estimation was correct.”
* PJ’s Heart Attack: “I suggest everyone who reads this click the Drudge Report and report it as a tip.
Its a blockbuster. The Democratic presidential candidate was born a Muslim in another country? Never.”
http://fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate
http://www.drudgereport.com/
* pat: “So why won’t Obama let anyone see his long form Birth Certificate?”
* Sandra McDonald: “You’re right Russell, its huge news, and it could change the election completely.”
* Bob V: “LGB1 - Sincere thanks for the good wishes, and I wish you a good day as well. I actually am having a good day - Obama is up 11 points nationally in the Gallup poll for the second day in a row, and is now, for the first time, ahead in West Virginia for the first time - up 8 points, according to the ARG poll just released today. West Virginia!
With respect to the birth certificate nonsense, those of your readers who would like to get the real facts from an objective source can go to http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html, to read about and see the genuine Hawaii birth certificate for Senator Obama, as well as the birth notice published at the time in the local Honolulu newspaper. (I know - his parents must have forseen that they would need to fake his natural born citizenship when he was born, in case he wanted to run for President.)
Really, you know when Ronald Reagan was running for President, conservatives appealed to American voters by talking about ideas - free enterprise, limited government, civil liberties. That was the high road, and it worked. It’s sad to see what the movement has become 28 years later. No wonder real conservatives like Charles Krauthammer and George Will are so despondent about what’s happened to formerly intellectual conservatism.”
[NOTE: We referenced FactCheck.org in our story--both of their articles, as well as why others, as well as DBKP, had some problems with their facts and fact checking.]
* pat: “Here is the thing, if the public is curious about this innocuous issue, Obama should simply provide it. If Obama feels people are a bit too conspiratorial, it would serve him well to laugh about it , blow it up, and explain the contents in front of a friendly crowd. It would get huge play and be a good joke.
IF HE WANTED TO DISMISS THE LAWSUIT, HE SHOULD HAVE ATTACHED THE BC TO THE MOTION. Over. Summary Judgment. Hmmmmmmm. Now that is curious. Because he did not.”
* Serpico: “Shhh. Don’t remind anyone how well the DNC vetted Joe Lieberman and John Edwards.”
* PJ, PJMcIlvaine: “I think this story is as silly as claiming that John McCain can’t run for office either cos he was born in Panama. Well, I have a pretty good hunch this story will go the way of Biden “leaving” the ticket on October 5th….”
[and]
“Bob, it’s just so much more fun for people to spout rumor and nonsense….why cloud the issue with facts? I hope you go to fivethirtyeight.com Great polling site….”
* Bob V: “PJ - Fivethirtyeight.com is my favorite polling site. Whenever I get discouraged by reading all this drivel on the internet, I get my spirits right back up by seeing what real people are thinking. It looks like it’s going to be a landslide! Keep the faith!”
* Maricela: “I can not imagine that anyone serving in any governmental office did not have to prove their citizenship with a birth certificate. Racism is well an alive in our United States but remember latinos and blacks are the growing majority. Be nice cause we are. Do not become like McCain —Divisive, creating hate mongers and terroistic inciters and the sad part, he now hides behind 2 skirts”
* Da Truth: “PJ, Except John McCain was born in a US Naval hospital 30 years before Hawaii was even a US State, and has provided a valid birth certificate.”
* Maricela: “For all skeptics on Senator Obama’s birth certificate at http://www.factcheck.org
They researached well and received information from the following sources:
United States Department of State. “Application for a U.S. Passport.” Accessed 20 Aug. 2008. State of Hawaii Department of Health. “Request for Certified Copy of Birth Record.” Accessed 20 Aug. 2008. Hollyfield, Amy. “Obama’s Birth Certificate: Final Chapter.” Politifact.com. 27 Jun. 2008.
[Again, we included multiple references to the FactCheck.org piece above in our article--including why we, in a hasty decision, depended on their fact checking for 4 months and why we now question it.]
* Bob’s Vagina: “Don’t forget John Kerry was winning in a landslide victory ON ELECTION DAY polls. That don’t mean Shiite (the type of Islam both Obama’s father, his five muslim college roommates and his four muslim brothers practiced).”
* Another Joe: “A very good report in spite of your last minute claifications.
Even though I am a Democrat and find this unbelievable, the fact that some of your readers simply blink at this really shows what a fine sense of patriotism and respect for the rule of law they have.
The core of a civilized society, whether it leans to or is totally to the left or right, is the rule of law, for without it, there is anarchy. The respect anyone shows by producing pertinent documents when requested is the respect to that rule of law. So, why would a constitutional lawyer refrain from doing so? It’s VERY “curious”.”
* Jacksonian: “I have two reactions to this post: Paranoia runs deep; GET A LIFE.”
[NOTE: That's a keeper for our "Raves" marquee!]
* Gregg: “Dear Jacksonian, Paranoia? It’s paranoid to have a problem with someone who won’t produce his lousy birth certificate when requested by a judge becoming President of the United States? You know, I’d come to agree with Charles Johnson that there was nothing to this whole birth certificate flap, but I’m no longer so sure.”
Gregg’s comment above would describe our present position exactly. We don’t know if this is true and clearly said so.
BUT, politicians exhibiting “curious behaviors” interest us. For some reason, we want to ask questions.]
In the John Edwards scandal, the National Enquirer’s initial story on the affair passed without comment at DBKP because it contained very few facts that could be checked. That changed after the December Enquirer story: there were plenty of facts and the Edwards’ campaign and the principals involved exhibited curious behavior for a group of people surrounding a presidential candidate–if they had nothing to hide.
Likewise, the issue of the Obama birth certificate did not excite our interest initially. The curious FactCheck.org language and the the debunking of several of their “facts” caught our interest. Also, FactCheck’s post comes across as extremely biased in our closer reading. Why hurl invective at people who ask a fact check site to check facts? Why post that digital images have not been altered when it quickly established that they had? That was interesting.
We didn’t think we became conspiracy theorists when these events prompted questions–in spite of what FactCheck.org’s pieces label the people who want some facts.
In fact, one of the reasons DBKP stayed silent on this issue was that we saw the FactCheck.org articles quoted extensively elsewhere.
But a reading of the pieces themselves at FactCheck’s site made us curious: why would a fact checking site deride those asking questions and wanting facts checked become “conspiracy theorists”? IF the allegations are “baseless”, as Fact Check alleges, then why the resistance to disproving them in the easiest and most conclusive way possible: by providing a copy of Barack Obama’s original birth certificate? Lastly, why the highly-charged language from a supposedly-neutral fact checking site?
It was the language of the FactCheck.org articles that prompted us to ask, “Where have we heard this before?” It was the same type of language used by the Edwards’ campaign in December and Edwards’ subsequent language in July and August–after he’d been caught visiting his mistress her daughter.
Being called “paranoid” and “conspiracy theorists” doesn’t much bother us: in our short history, it’s happened during the stories we decide to devote our meager resources to–mostly stories ignored by the Mainstream Media. John Edwards and Larry Sinclair come to mind, but also Megan Meier’s MySpace Suicide in its early days.
Finally, the Obama campaign’s curious behavior in reaction to Berg v. Obama was the kicker. This “silly suit” could have been dispatched PDQ by ponying up the documents requested. The Berg suit says as much. That the campaign, rather than just produce the vault copy birth certificate has decided to devote legal resources to fighting it just doesn’t make sense. They could put this issue to bed with one FEDEX delivery.
They chose not to and that led to our article.
It does not help that Obama:
- has been less than forthcoming about his past associations;
- Changed his story as more facts become available on several of these questions, particularly Jeremiah Wright. Initially, Obama vigorously defended Wright before claiming that he “didn’t hear him say those things” while sitting in his church for 20 years. This is also clearly the case the more Obama talks about his years-long relationship with William Ayers;
- has refused to make many documents available which might help his case–or hurt him badly. IN particular, his thesis from college falls into this category. The problems Stanley Kurtz had in obtaining the Chicago Anneberg Challenge records also comes to mind.
Who is Barack Obama?
by Mondo
images: Michael Ramirez, IBD; dbkp file
More from this category
- Obama Birth Certificate: Who Determines Presidential Constitutional Eligibility?
- Bipartisan Commission Warns of Anthrax, Spanish Flu Terrorist Attack Within 5 Years
- Water-Powered Car Video: GenePax Hydro Car Set for 2010
- Lori Drew Verdict: Bad Law that Threatens Us All?
More from this author
- Papercuts Poll Results: MSNBC Judged ‘Most Unreliable MSM Organization
- Chris Mathews: MSNBC Wants to Know–Hardball or Senate Run?
- Obama Birth Certificate: SCOTUS Conference Set for Tomorrow
- MORNING INTELL: Terrorist Gets Truth Serum, NFL, Oldest Pot Stash
Subscribe to this author
↑ Grab this Headline Animator for your webpage OR
Click the banner to grab DBKP's News Feed for Yourself!
Comments
Trackbacks
- Hollywood Rumors and Gossip » Blog Archive » National Enquirer Insists Jamie Lynn Spears Is Pregnant
- Obama Birth Certificate Federal Lawsuit: Video Released On YouTube | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
- Obama College, Medical, Birth Records: Who is Barack Obama? | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
- Michelle Obama Calls African News Organization Over Obama Birth Certificate Reporting | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
- African Press International, Michelle Obama: Editor Says He Has Audio Tape of Conversation | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
- Obama Birth Certificate: Ruling in Berg v. Obama Expected In Next Two Days | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
- Obama Birth Certificate: Lawsuits Mushroom in State Courts over Obama Citizenship | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
- Obama Birth Certificate: Obama Birth Certificate Sealed by State of Hawaii | DBKP - The Worldwide Leader in Weird
- Obama Birth Certificate: WND, Kenya and African Press Internatl | DBKP - Death By 1000 Papercuts - DBKP
- Obama Birth Certificate: Who Determines Presidential Constitutional Eligibility? | DBKP - Death By 1000 Papercuts - DBKP
- » Obama Birth Certificate: Who Determines Presidential Eligibility? - Blogger News Network
About “problems” with FactCheck.org.
People take issue with Factcheck.org’s analysis of the COLB. I have no issue with that.
The repeated claims that Factcheck.org is “in the tank” for Obama or “heavily associated” with Obama is inconsistent with – the facts.
Here are the (verifiable) facts.
1. Factcheck.org “is a project of the Annenberg Public Policy Center of the University of Pennsylvania.” (“APPC”) (Source: http://www.factcheck.org/about)
Obama has never been “heavily associated with” the APPC. (No one making these “connection” claims has asserted any such association either.)
2. The APPC was established by publisher and philanthropist Walter Annenberg in 1994 “to create a community of scholars within the University of Pennsylvania that would address public policy issues at the local, state and federal levels.” (Source: http://www.factcheck.org/about)
Obama has never been “heavily associated with” the Walter Annenberg. (No one making these “connection” claims has asserted any such association either.)
3. Walter and Leonore Annenberg, also established The Annenberg Foundation, which funds the APPC and issues grants on a wide variety of issues, worth 100s of millions of dollars. (Source: http://www.annenbergfoundation.org)
Obama has never been “heavily associated with” The Annenberg Foundation. (No one making these “connection” claims has asserted any such association either.)
4. Mrs. Leonore Annenberg – the surviving member of the couple who started the Annenberg Foundation — has endorsed John McCain for president. (Source: http://www.newsmax.com/kessler/ambassador_mccain_/2008/10/05/137538.html)
4. The Annenberg Foundation, which funds the APPC and issues grants on a wide variety of issues, worth 100s of millions of dollars, funded the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. (Source: http://www.annenbergfoundation.org/usr_doc/Retrospective.pdf at page 8; http://www.annenberginstitute.org/challenge/sites/chicago.html)
Obama served on the board of the Chicago Annenberg Challenge. (Source: See footnote sources cited in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicago_Annenberg_Challenge)
====
Therefore, the “connection” between Obama and Factcheck.org is as follows:
In the 1990s, Obama served on the board of an organization that received funding from a foundation….
…..established by a donor who has endorsed McCain …..
…..which foundation provides 100s of millions of dollars of grants to a wide variety of public interest organizations….
…..including the organization (APPC) that runs Fact.check.org.
====
Consider these facts and make up your own mind whether Factcheck.org, which has published two articles verifying the authenticity of Obama’s COLB (after holding, and photographing, the actual hard copy) is “in the tank” for Obama.
[Reply]
What a shame it is that this is even an issue. The answers are obvious. This is not what the country cares about. This is why McCain is sinking like a stone. His supporters are just scary. American’s will not benefit from McCain or Palin being in office, and sorry to say probably not even in the political game.
[Reply]
Even as a conservative I thought this lawsuit was completely ridiculous when I first heard about it, but the more I read, the more suspicious I become.
Why doesn’t Obama just provide the proof that is being asked for? I don’t necessarily believe that it will be revealed that he isn’t eligible to be president, but I do have a feeling by providing this information, other things that he doesn’t want to come out will be revealed.
I might be young…but I can’t think of another presidential candidate that has been so shrouded in mystery. What do we really know about this guy? Only the tidbits the MSM will give us and what we choose to dig up on our own.
I can’t believe that I’m facing living in a country with a president that is basically a Marxist.
Insanity.
~T the D
http://thedrunkelephant.blogspot.com/
[Reply]
RICO investigation of ACORN and the Obama campaign underway.
http://crippy.me/2008/10/11/rico-investigation-of-acorn-and-the-obama-campaign-underway.aspx
[Reply]
WYE,
Enjoyed your site and thought it did a pretty good job of objectively checking facts.
I’m not saying that FACTCheck.org is “in the tank for Obama”–after I saw your comment, I went back and checked.
What I AM saying is that there is obvious bias in their write-ups and questions about their two COLB articles–at the very least in their presentation.
Others with more resources than I raised many questions on FactCheck fact checking. I’m not saying that Fact Check is “in the tank for Obama” in the same way that the NY Times, MSNBC and others in the MSM are–it may be just a case of “being starstruck” at getting to meet and greet the Obama team.
Posting that they hadn’t altered the digital images in any way–when the compression ratios show that they had–didn’t inspire my confidence either. Posting images in such a way the second time around–so that others can’t conduct their own check of FactCheck’s work–what’s up with that?
Were they afraid of getting burned again? I don’t know the answer to that, but it made me curious. But then, I”m the curious type: for ten months, almost no one in the blogosphere was curious about the load of BS the Edwards campaign passed out to the MSM–who promptly swallowed it and smiled.
I have clearly said that I’m not sure what’s going on with FactCheck.org–at least with the COLB story– but their association with Anneberg is a fact.
So is the fact that many foundations founded by conservatives are hijacked after their deaths by liberals. The Ford Foundation is only one of many examples.
it doesn’t matter how much money Lenore Anneberg gives McCain: if she has day-to-day control over the Anneberg Foundation, she would be fairly unique in the world of modern philanthropy. She could be at McCain rallies everyday with a megaphone and it doesn’t have a thing to do with how her foundation is being run on a day-to-day basis.
A good project for WYE would be to see how many foundations founded by conservatives now are cash cows for progressive/liberal groups completely at odds with the founders’ beliefs. There’s been no end of research on that one done; a quick Google will provide a ton of material to write about.
One last problem WE had with FactCheck was their snotty tone at the people who raised questions about their checking facts. That did nothing but raise more questions–at least in our minds.
If they want to write their finding in the manner of a gossip site, that’s their decision. But when they showed a healthy dose of scorn and sloppiness in their methodology, then they can expect to receive a bit of scorn in return.
My own private conclusion is:
If it was necessary, I could have a copy of my vault birth certificate in a court in 15 minutes–regardless of assertions that this is somehow a gargantuan task for someone to accomplish.
For months, we took a pass on this story until the Obama campaign started actively fighting the lawsuit–instead of simply providing the documents. That action finally piqued our curiosity. We thought it odd a campaign supposedly dedicated to fighting rumors would throw gasoline on the fire about this one. When it is such an easy thing to dispel.
The fact the MSM has done NO investigation, reported on the FactCheck articles, but not on the Federal lawsuit of Berg is another reason we need to cover this. We might be wrong. We hope the Obama campaign proves our interest wrong by providing the documents in question.
The longer this drags on, the more questions will be asked.
At least here.
Thanks for taking the time to stop by, read and comment. As stated, I think you are doing a good job.
[Reply]
We have a controversy! I suppose the wording of the constitution must be scrutinized in minute detail to determine what “proof of birth” is correctly defined as! Anyone can “produce” a birth certificate. …either for or against; making the “proof” itself doubtful. The more important issue in my mind is the parental status at the time of birth. According to some this issue disqualifies the candidate. Read the constitution; but a word of caution; if reading the constitution means the meaning of the words penned there will be twisted for the benefit of those in doubt; then don’t bother! Many who support the candidate in question are thumbing their noses at obvious lies! Must we question why these rules were instituted originally? They MUST be followed or we all become just like those who are ignoring them! Looking for ways around the rules damn those who are looking! We as a nation are now too accustomed to breaking the rules because too many people have been doing it for too long.This is our last chance to uphold those rules dear to our founding fathers. If we screw this up the downfall of our nation can be credited to those currently responsible for placing their greed and ego above the good of the country. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
[Reply]
All,
For a very intriguing set of articles discussing the legal aspects of the “Natural Born Citizen” Requirement, including Standing to Sue, consider the Michigan Law Review’s Recent First Impressions Publication, available at http://www.michiganlawreview.org/index-fi.htm.
More particularly,
—Originalism and the Natural Born Citizen Clause (http://www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/solum.htm) discusses the Original Intent of the “Natural Born Citizenship” requirement, and the challenges with applying “original intent” on this issue.
—The Justiciability of Eligibility: May Courts Decide Who Can Be President? (http://www.michiganlawreview.org/firstimpressions/vol107/tokaji.htm) discusses the “standing”/”justiciability” issues presented by these issues.
(Note: While the articles generally focus on the issue of Sen. McCain’s eligibility, the principles and challenges discussed apply generally to all similiar situations, including the issues raised in the case against Sen. Obama.)
[Reply]
I have been looking for an update. Can anyone provide? My only though is the judge is waiting/stalling. Anyone
[Reply]
Why is it that 70% of Americans hate attorneys and think they are lying sacks of s**t, however, the polls say that they support Obama, who is an attorney and has been lying every step of the way???
I think it is interesting that he might not be born here, or eligible and no media has reported it. I can’t tell you how many people who are shocked out of their mind that this is even an issue, lots of curious minds that want an answer!
Yet, anyways, anyone who can say with a straight face that we should “spread the wealth around” does not belong in America! Move to Iran/Iraq or Russia. Give me a break!
God Bless America! How can anyone want as their leader a man who screams, “I’m tired of, I’m tired of, . . . ” again and again! Wow, that is what I want to listen to every day! Like THAT will save our country!
I hear so many say that Palin is a “heartbeat” away from the Presidency. I want to quote Arnie (in Rob/Arnie & Dawn) saying “Biden is a bullet away from the Presidency.” Honestly, you live as long as God wants you to, who is to judge who is to die and who is to live, and when?
I don’t care if Obama was purple, that is not the issue, listen to his WORDS, look at the EVIDENCE, God save America from this sort of government!
[Reply]
In addition to the missing birth certificate:
1. Occidental College records - - Not released
2. Columbia College records - - Not released
3. Columbia Thesis paper - - “not available”
4. Harvard College records - - Not released
5. Selective Service Registration - - Not released
6. Medical records — Not released
7. Illinois State Senate schedule - - “not available”
8. Law practice client list - - Not released
9. Certified Copy of original Birth certificate - - Not released
10. Embossed, signed paper Certification of Live Birth - - Not released
11. Harvard Law Review articles published - - None
12. University of Chicago scholarly articles - - None
13. Record of baptism - - Not released or “not available”
14. Illinois State Senate records - -”not available”
Also note that no US organization has stepped forward to claim that Obama’s birth certificate had been previously checked out by them.
What if the online birth certificate is proven to have fraudulent information, WILL that MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE? Does our Constitution still have meaning?
[Reply]
Barbara Reply:
December 3rd, 2008 at 4:21 pm
At the very least the Innaugaration cannot take place without proof that this man is a natural born American Citizen.
If he had nothing to hide why hide all of his records? They claim privacy…no person desiring the Office of the President has a RIGHT to privacy…they give up that right when they announce their intention to seek that office.
What is the matter with America? Protect the Constitution! This is not right and something must be done.
[Reply]
Boy, what a bunch of fraidy cats and conspiracy theorists there are in this country. It’s scary to think that such numb-nuts get to vote. However, it is probably the same bunch that brought us 8 years of the moronic Bush presidency. The lack of knowledge re the posts here is mind-boggling. As for the claims by “mas,” there are some serious inaccuracies here: Obama HAS released medical records; law practice client lists are protected under attorney-client privilege; law review editors & staffers SELDOM write articles for law reviews. As the former production manager of a law review for several years, I can tell you with authority that law review articles are normally written by practicing attorneys who have reached a level of recognition in their field or topic on which they write. I cannot recall A SINGLE INSTANCE where we published a student authored piece, because absent having passed the bar, there would be little credibility to such an article. (Mas, you should have figured that one out.) College records are protected by the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act. Sorry, but I simply do not think, absent a court order, that a candidate should have to produce these records to satisfy a bunch of whackos who would still find conspiracy in tables of stone regarding the candidate handed down from the Almighty! Obama was born in the U.S. McCain’s birth is the one in question. He was born in 1936 and the law making individuals born on military bases abroad U.S. citizens was not enacted until 1937, a year after he was born. If Obama’s birth certificate, as produced for the U.S. State Department to obtain a passport, was satisfactory for a U.S. GOVERNMENTAL BODY it should be satisfactory for the populace.
[Reply]
catpurrson,
Obama HAS released medical records;
How about humoring the ‘numbnuts here’ and putting up a link. You would be the first person who has seen these elusive medical records outside of the campaign.
There’s no need to argue about facts: look them up. I suggest you do that and help everyone out with a link to the Obama medical records.
Thanks for stopping by and commenting.
[Reply]
BO will never give up his college records. applications probably give his place of birth and he probably got a free ride for being a foreign student. Anywho, You will never get a link from catpurrson. just like john kerry put his military records on line. Never happened. Latest story is that Hawaii’s gov. sealed his Birth Certificate. This is another smokescreen. I hope they charge her with Obstruction when they find out there is none. She is adding credence to BO by claiming he has a birth certificate but it has been sealed. This is the easy way out for the Gov. and obama. Gov is interfering in a Federal Case for political reasons. I believe Andy martin’s Lawsuit is still active, just no decision until after the election.
One of the proud Numbnuts!
[Reply]
When Hawaii became a state in 1959, there were many people who resided there who did not have a birth certificate — therefore, hawaiian law established in 1911 permitted someone to register a person born in Hawaii who was one year or older whose birth had not been previously registered in Hawaii. This procedure was in place until 1972! Maybe Obama’s mother or grandmother applied for this registration after Obama was born in Kenya and that’s why Obama wont release the vault copy…
Probably they got the certificate just on an affidavit alleging a home birth!
Why else wont Obama produce the certificate!
(it is called the “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth program” and I got it off the Hawai State Department of Health site)… http://hawaii.gov/vital-records/vital-records/hawnbirth.html I just typed it in…. if the web site address is wrong… just search that’s how I found it!
[Reply]
I FOUND THE BIRTH CERTIFICATE!!!
http://a729.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/12/l_2f5a36301d0e15a8f1ca598d5b6f3620.jpg
[Reply]
Subject: FW: 7 1/2 Years of George Bush….might surprise you!
What, me worry? My name is written in The Book Of Life!
Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 1:01 PM
George Bush has been in office for 7 1/2 years. The first six the
economy
was fine
A little over one year ago:
1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%
4) the DOW JONES hit a record high-140+
5) American’s were buying new cars, taking cruises, vacations overseas,
living large!…
But American’s wanted ‘CHANGE’! So, in 2006 they voted in a Democratic
Congress and yes–we got ‘CHANGE’ all
right. In the PAST YEAR:
1) Consumer confidence has plummeted;
2) Gasoline is now over $4 a gallon & climbing;
3) Unemployment is up to 5.5% (a 10% increase);
4) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $12 TRILLION and
prices
still dropping;
5) 1% of American homes are in foreclosure.
6) as I write, THE DOW is probing another low~~
$2.5 TRIL LION DOLLARS HAS EVAPORATED FROM THEIR STOCKS, BONDS &
MUTUAL
FUNDS INVESTMENT PORTFOLIOS!
YES, IN 2006 AMERICA VOTED FOR CHANGE…AND WE SURE GOT IT! ….
REMEMBER THE PRESIDENT HAS NO CONTROL OVER ANY OF THESE ISSUES, ONLY
CONGRESS.
AND WHAT HAS CONGRESS DONE IN THE LAST TWO YEARS, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.
NOW THE DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE FOR PRESIDENT CLAIMS HE IS GOING TO REALLY
GIVE US CHANGE ALONG WITH A DEMOCRATIC
CONGRESS!!!!
JUST HOW MUCH MORE ‘CHANGE’ DO YOU THINK YOU CAN STAND?
[Reply]
If this is a real birth certificate where are the signatures? Every birth certificate that I have seen has had the signatures of the mother, the father and of the doctor who delivered the baby. Why aren’t any of these signatures on this “birth certificate”?
[Reply]
you’re right catpurrson, i’m surprised you were able to vote, numbnuts. obama is a moron
[Reply]
Cherry Lame web site
[Reply]
Cherry Lame web page also has “Proof Barack Obama Birth Certificate is a Forgery” explaining it in layman terms at http://lamecherry.blogspot.com/2008/08/proof-barack-obama-birth-certificate-is.html.
[Reply]
Why does this issue matter? Because he LIED to us, the AMERICAN people again! He said that NO COLB existed when one does! The Hawaiian medical examiner pulled it from the vault the Friday prior to the election DUE to a second lawsuit filed in this matter in Hawaii! Obama REFUSED to put this issued to rest (WHY???) when he easily could have, there IS paperwork showing that he was adopted by his Indonesian step-father, who proclaimed him to be BOTH Indonesian AND Muslim under the name of Barry Soweto, NO paperwork to prove he ever restored his U.S. citizenship, and Berg has a video showing his paternal Grandmother claiming she was in the delivery room in KENYA when he was born!
Now if you don’t like the residency requirements of the U.S. Constitution, by all means go out and change it, but DO NOT BREAK THE LAW AND UNDERMINE THE CONSTITUTION! And if he WAS born in Hawaii, but IS hiding something else, the American people had a RIGHT to know! Just like his college records, etc. that he kept from us. I was a hardcore Obama fan until I took the time to check him out after he reneged in the FISA bill. I expect before it is over we will see a lot more that he has lied about as well. I had enough nefarious underhanded dealing with Bush, thank you!
I always thought that BOTH Democrats and Republicans could agree on three things: 1) the Constitution was to be protected and followed at all costs; 2) even leaders must obey the laws; and 3) politicians must be honest. What a tragedy that so many no longer think these values matter and no wonder the country is in such BIG trouble. ASK YOURSELVES: WHY CAN’T WE GET THE TRUTH?
WAKE UP AMERICA!
[Reply]
—————-
Kat Mitchell said .. “Why does this issue matter? Because he LIED to us, the AMERICAN people again! He said that NO COLB existed when one does! …”
—————-
When did Obama say that no COLB existed? I am not aware of any such statement. Indeed, Obama published his COLB on his website. He has never contended that either the COLB or the original certification of live birth doesn’t/didn’t exist.
—————-
Kat Mitchell said …”The Hawaiian medical examiner pulled it from the vault the Friday prior to the election DUE to a second lawsuit filed in this matter in Hawaii! …”
—————-
This is not accurate. First, it was the Hawaii Department of Health Official (not medical examiner) who reviewed it. Second, they didn’t review it due to Andy Martin’s suit. They reviewed it to attempt to stop the midnight calls to their personal homes and the repeated requests for it.
—————-
Kat Mitchell said …”Obama REFUSED to put this issued to rest (WHY???) when he easily could have, there IS paperwork showing that he was adopted by his Indonesian step-father, who proclaimed him to be BOTH Indonesian AND Muslim under the name of Barry Soweto, …”
—————-
You are referring, I believe, to the Indonesian school record. That record does not show that he was adopted, although it did show that his step-father listed him as Barry Soetoro (not Soweto), of Indonesian citizenship, and listed his religion as Islam. (The same way that thousands of foreign nationals register their kids in US schools as US citizens even though they’re not.) (Indeed, even Berg concedes that Obama may not have been adopted, but merely acknowledged.)
—————-
Kat Mitchell said …”NO paperwork to prove he ever restored his U.S. citizenship,
—————-
This is because he had no need to “restore” his US citizenship, even if he WAS adopted by Soetoro, and even if Indonesian law provided that upon such adoption (or acknowledgement), the child became an Indonesian citizen.
US law, applicable at the relevant time between 1967 and 1971 was crystal clear: A minor child could NOT lose his US citizenship by virtue of his parent’s actions, including their repatriation to another country or renouncement of US citizenship – so long as the child returned to the US before age 23 and established permanent residence there. See Immigration & Nationality Act of 1952, § 349 and 355.
—————-
Kat Mitchell said …”…and Berg has a video showing his paternal Grandmother claiming she was in the delivery room in KENYA when he was born!…”
—————-
Incorrect. First, Berg has an audio, not a video. Second, unless you speak Swahili, you cannot be sure what she says. The only CLEAR statement on that audio is a repeated statement by her grandson interpreting her words to mean that he was born in Hawaii, but was a “son” of the village. While Berg’s “preacher affidavits” interpret her words to say that he was born in Mombassa, others who speak Swahili have listened to the audio and said that she did not say that.
—————-
Kat Mitchell said “…Now if you don’t like the residency requirements of the U.S. Constitution, by all means go out and change it, but DO NOT BREAK THE LAW AND UNDERMINE THE CONSTITUTION!…”
—————-
No one is, as far as I know, suggesting that we undermine the constitution – EXCEPT those who seek to have this issue resolved by a judge rather than by the Constitutionally established process of election > electoral college vote > Congress counting the vote and entertaining any properly raised objection to the elected President’s qualifications. THAT is the Constitutionally-established process. Berg, and others, seek to undermine the Constitution by inserting activist judicial action into the political process clearly established by the Constitution.
—————-
Kat Mitchell said “..And if he WAS born in Hawaii, but IS hiding something else, the American people had a RIGHT to know! Just like his college records, etc. that he kept from us. ..”
—————-
Every single Presidential/Vice Presidential candidate “kept” their college records, their full medical records, and their full career/job records from the American people. And, while we all WANT to know, you are simply wrong that we have some “right” to know. The fact is that we have a RIGHT to consider all the candidates. They have a RIGHT to disclose what they so choose to us. If we don’t think they’ve disclosed enough, we have a RIGHT to vote against them. However, we have NO “right” to such personal information.
—————-
Kat Mitchell said “….I always thought that BOTH Democrats and Republicans could agree on three things: 1) the Constitution was to be protected and followed at all costs; 2) even leaders must obey the laws; and 3) politicians must be honest….”
—————-
This is something I firmly believe in. And I believe that at least to date, the Constitution has been protected and followed. Just as the Robinson and Hollander courts did before him in the cases challenging McCain’s eligibility, Judge Surrick “protected” and “followed” the Constitution. We can be thankful for that. And, so far, just as in prior elections, the Constitutional process for determining a President’s qualifications have been followed. We’ll see how December and January goes, but I am hopeful that both the substantive requirements of the Constitution — as well as the equally important procedural requirements for confirming those substantive requirements — will be followed.
—————-
Kat Mitchell said “…What a tragedy that so many no longer think these values matter and no wonder the country is in such BIG trouble. .ASK YOURSELVES: WHY CAN’T WE GET THE TRUTH?”
—————-
The “tragedy” is that there is no “truth” that will satisfy those who insist on believing
(a) the one “forensic expert” who has not been discredited;
(b) the allegations of an attorney who has already been slapped with steep sanctions for “a laundry list of unethical actions,” which included filing a frivolous lawsuit with no basis in fact or law; the same attorney who sued Bush/Cheney for conspiring to let/make 9/11 happen;
(c) the convoluted, inadmissible affidavits from two people, one of whom it has been demonstrated affirmatively lied on his affidavit (by using an assumed name without disclosing that in his affidavit), based on an audio tape that different people translate differently, and upon which the only CLEARLY understandable statement about Obama’s birth was that he was born in Hawaii.
—–RATHER THAN—
(a) the three CONSERVATIVE newspapers who have conducted their own investigation and determined that the COLB showing Hawaiian/US birth is authentic; and/or
(b) the three (at least) other “forensic experts” who have conducted their own analysis and determined that the COLB showing Hawaiian/US birth is authentic; and/or
(c) the contemporaneous 1961 Health Department statistics, published in two separate newspapers, which confirm that Obama was born in Hawaii; and/or
(d) the several statements by various Hawaii Health Department officials who have confirmed that the COLB is valid and/or that Obama was, indeed, born in Hawaii, as reflected on the original certification of life birth.
(e) the law applicable at the time Obama was in Indonesia, which stated unequivocally that a minor (Obama) did not lose his citizenship so long as he returned to the US before age 23 (which Obama did) to establish permanent residence.
See WhatsYourEvidence for links to sources for these statements.
[Reply]
Rick Reply:
November 25th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
Have you seen this analysis?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIsQJNTvlUE
Much more convincing that bHo is a fraud than anything the press has reported, don’t you think?
[Reply]
PETITION FOR PUBLIC RELEASE OF
BARACK HUSSEIN OBAMA’S BIRTH CERTIFICATE
SIGN IT HERE:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=81550
[Reply]