A good article. You describe the normal reaction. Any more evidence?

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How much longer before Hilary has to break with Obama. I know at her core she finds these attacks disgusting.

A break with Obama will cement her credentials as the true Democratic Candidate who was robbed.

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Come on! You people need to explain why a 17 year old having a baby out of wedlock with an 8 year old is moral and thus deserving of privacy, especially after all the screaming you’ve done about John Edward’s baby. Not that I don’t agree that what he did makes him a scum bag, but you can’t get on a moral high horse and say it’s fine for teenagers to have sex when they’re not married. And why aren’t Palin’s parenting abilities (clearly lacking, given that her daughter is PREGNANT!) any more disqualifying than Edward’s affair? Again, I’m not defending him, just asking for a little consistency. Don’t give me the “people make mistakes” line. That rings hollow,especially since you’d have to give John Edwards the benefit of that line. The Bible says that sex outside of marriage is wrong. Period. No exceptions for children of Republican politicians or anyone else.

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Mary — There’s a popular Christian saying — “Christians aren’t perfect — just forgiven.”

The non-Christian left is always trying to hold Christians (especially right-wing Christians) to the impossible standard of perfection. Democrats (I assume you’re one) are always quick to hypocritically and arrogantly sneer at Republicans, “the party of family values,” whenever Democrats perceive anything at all to have gone awry in a Republican politician’s family

You miss one crucial fact: it’s never the single sinful act that demonstrates anything about a person’s moral character — it’s how the sinner lives the ongoing aftermath of the act that demonstrates moral character. No one on earth can be faulted for committing a sin; Christians know that sin is in the nature of each and every human being. It is how the sin is dealt with that shows personal character.

Mary, you can’t fault a person for a single moral failing (and you shouldn’t bother, especially when it doesn’t have any effect on your own life). The Palin’s aren’t asking for any “exceptions” like you might fantasize that they are — however, they clearly want to do the right thing in the aftermath and that’s the most you can ask of any person, Democrat, Republican or HUMAN.

All of the above, Mary Molinari, can only be disavowed by you if you yourself are “without sin.” If you are that perfect moral being, then by all means, “cast the first stone.” Otherwise, cool it on Sarah Paiin and her daughter, who are undergoing a degree of personal stress that you in all likelihood have rarely, if ever, experienced in your own life. Give Sarah and Bristol a break and let God be the judge.

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Thankyou Ginn.i have no real ability to post on the road, but I feel the same way. It is digusting, CNN in particular seems deranged.

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Sorry, but that doesn’t cut it. I am a life-long practicing Catholic and well understand redemption. I’m not judging anyone, but lots of people on this page have been, for a very long time. You can’t have it both ways.

It’s interesting that you assume that people on the left don’t follow Christ’s teachings.

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I’ve read many of the posts at this Hillary Clinton forum, and let me tell you, they may SAY they support Hillary, but they don’t. They spew as much bile as some far right wing sites I could mention. They don’t speak for me, and they don’t speak for the overwhelming majority of true Hilary supporters (of which I am not one, even though she’s from my home state).

You seem to have cherry picked just a couple of the more strident voices there, but failed to mention that when one of the own challenges, the thread is locked down pronto.

These are my thoughts on the Palin affair: I’m with Bonnie Fuller from US Weekly on this one. Palin herself put the kids in the national spotlight. She could have easily disclosed last week, in her first speech as she was introducing her family and went on about her son going to Iraq. They botched it, and they botched it badly.

Don’t blame the media for doing the job that McCain failed to do. He didn’t vet her properly, and he should have disclosed all this before it became a firestorm. Remember, all this stuff about Palin and her husband were out there in the blogosphere. It’s a bit disingenious to set fire to your own house, keep dousing it with gasoline, and then when other people show up to throw more gas on the fire, to then blame THEM for starting the fire.

Now it’s been reported that Levi has flown to the convention to “join” the family. Bad move, in my opinion. There is supposedly yet another shoe waiting to drop, and having him front and center may hasten it.

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Mary Molinari

Come on! You people need to explain why a 17 year old having a baby out of wedlock with an 8 year old is moral and thus deserving of privacy, especially after all the screaming you’ve done about John Edward’s baby.

Well Mary, if the father was truly 8 years old then yes, there would be a story.

This has absolutely no comparison to John Edwards, whom, if you recall, was actually running for President on a morality platform paying for it with campaign funds while cheating on his cancer-stricken wife with Reille Hunter, who now has a love child. Edwards denied the affair to the country then was caught lying about it.

Sarah Palin’s daughter is 17 and having a baby. She’s engaged to marry the father. This is hardly fodder to prove Sarah Palin’s unfit to be VP.

And Mary, there is quite a bit of a difference in going after Edwards and one of his children, which is what is going on with Palin.

Evidently it’s okay for you and people like you to go after a pregnant teen. We caught your “thin veneer of sneer” in this matter. You are a hypocrite when you say you’re not judgemental. You’ve judged Sarah Palin, her daughter, and now us.

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PJ

I disagree with you. Sarah Palin’s daughter isn’t “fair game”.

You need to take a step back and realize that a it’s a seventeen year old girl who has been at the center of not only a vicious rumor, that her mother allegedly faked her last pregnancy to cover up her daughter’s pregnancy but now the center of a non-controversial story, of having a baby when she’s seventeen.

Implying that Sarah Palin is somehow not fit to lead because her 17-yr-old daughter is pregnant implies that every parent who has a pregnant teen daughter is also somehow “unfit” too.

Teen pregnancy is a not a sin, nor fodder for the pundit’s to try to get to John McCain. It’s plain mean, vicious, and nasty tactics.

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I have never said that Palin was unfit to lead because her daughter is pregnant; there are plenty of reasons NOT to vote for Palin other than this. I never said the child was fair game. Don’t put words in my mouth. I do say that Palin made the choice to accept this slot knowing full well that her choice were going to affect her family. She ASKED for privacy on this issue, then turns around and asks the kid to join them at the convention, where you know damn well the media surge will be Titanic.

Again, for me, this has nothing to do with BP being pregnant, but EVERYTHING to do with McCain and Palin’s judgement. Based on what I’ve seen for far, they have not handled this well at all. Not a good sign.

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“…EVERYTHING to do with McCain and Palin’s judgement.” How is it poor judgement, PJ?

What? Are you afraid the Iranians will somehow blackmail Palin because her daughter is pregnant? What’s the huge fall-out you fear might happen?

The only thing Palin is guilty of is having a 17-year-old daughter disobey her. Wow, that’s never happened to anyone before, has it?

Sarah Palin is a jewel, as evidenced by the left’s hair-pulling panic to get some dirt on her. Good luck. You’ll need it.

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LOL!!! Well,if Sarah Palin is a jewel, then my wedding band is the Hope Diamond.

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this lady has a full plate to be sure> Do we really believe she is super human though? Can she really juggle 5 kids, one who is an infant and will need his mom and a 17 year old who will be a mom and will certainly also need her mom’s attention as well as handle the responsibilites of being VP of the USA. ( not to mention having to up root her enire family to an entirely differnt type of life) Something will give…as much as we all know mothers/ woman can juggle with the best of them… there are only so many real hours to any one day. Who gets the short stick? The kids? the American citizen’s. When her baby is sick and her daughter is learning to suddenly be an adult/ parent and wife and the president is calling… who will she attend too? Can her husband really fill that hole? will Willow get forgotten… or what about the 7 year old…I don’t deny she is dynamic and couragous, but is this the right time for her to be the VP, is this a time when American can afford not to have somebody on board that can dedicate real attention to this country and our needs. I’m not sure we are passing judgement as much as wondering real life questions….

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LMAO!!!!!!!

And it’s said that MEN are intimidated by strong women………..!!!!!!!!!

Get a grip ladies…………EQUALITY is what you wanted………now ya got it…….in spades.

SHUT UP

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PJ

Then I guess Biden’s kids are fair game also. His alcoholic lesbian daughter should make fun copy, as well as the shenaigans of his lobbyist son. Then we also might review the Sunday School syntax for the Obama girls in that hate-filled cult their parents were members of.

The real reason Bristol is being discussed is because the lft thinks it is a wedge issue with conservatives. First there is the meme that Palin does not believe in contraception and is for. abstinence only. Secondly is the proposition that Christians will see this family as a poor example. Let us address these points.

Time Magazine reported that everyonee in Wasilla knew of the pregnancy. The reporter could not find a single adult or High School kid that was not aware of the pregnancy or the father, as wel as the betrothal. Both families had already informed their respective circles.time also dutifully informs us that contrary to how she is portrayed, Ms Palin is a member , and President of her Chapter,of Feminist For Life, She is decidedly anti-abortion, a comitmment made clear when she was informed Trig was with Down Syndrome. As such, she firmly believes in the use of contraceptives both before and after marriage. She encourages all young women to be fully educated in this area. Bristols pregnancy was no doubt a surprise, but having made the right decision in her mother and father’s eyes, it is entirely consistent with the families religious values. The second idea is a bizarre leftist carciture of conservative religious belief. Having gotten pregnant, Bristol decision to keep the baby puts her firmly in the right with protestant thinking. In fact even inthe Catholic church, the decision to marry completly voids the premarital sex, which by the way is not a sin, but an ecclesiastical prohibiton unless it involves adultery (old testament) or licentiouness (new testament). In other words, from a religious perspective this family would be warmly embraced by conservative Christians, if not so much by Country Club Christians who see an unplanned pregnancy as a curse or embarrassment rather than a gift of a new Grandchild for Ms Palin.This is a matter dealt extensively in Seminaries. The doctrines are established. Ignorant asses who think they know what constitutes conservative christianity would do well to actually study real church doctrine rather than that of snake handlers or other strange stuff.

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Show me where it says that Palin believes in birth control. Everything I’ve read and researched indicates that the only birth control Palin believes in is abstinence.

As for Biden, I don’t know how you can compare his lesbian alcoholic daughter (if true) nor can I figure out why you would even want to–to the Palin situation. This is the first I’ve even heard of this lesbian alcoholic daughter. Can I have some links please?

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PJ
‘The fact is, regardless of what you will hear over the next few days, Bristol’s pregnancy is not a legitimate political issue. Sarah Palin is a longterm member of a group called Feminists for Life, which is not opposed to birth control. So you probably can’t tag her for consigning young people to unwanted pregnancies.’

TIME

This abstinence only thing is a liberal myth. It is a reflection of a desire for teens not to have sex. It is not a death pact. No mainline Protestant church, including The Assemblies Of God which is the church Sarah and Bristol went to prohibit birth control. Nor do they prohibit sex education, biology, and human health. What they disagree with is polemic and advocacy disguised as sex education. You simply know nothing of religious philosophy or you would know this. I saw Wolf Blitzer and mMort Kondrake try the same thing. Totally uneducated.

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PJ
Palin belongs to the pro-life, pro-contraception group “Feminists for Life.”
Show me where she actually opposes all contraception.

LBG:
I wouldn’t care if Edward’s troubles were over parking tickets.
To me, it’s about revealing the compulsive conniving and lying that ambulance chaser lived for - and the subsequent (and very transparent) cover-ups.
Too bad it took a sexy, tabloid scandal for people to finally pay attention to that hack’s true character. But I’ll settle for it.

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I know Palin belongs to FIL. I’ve been to their website. They have no “official” position on birth control.

I cannot find any evidence to suggest that Palin believes in ANY OTHER KIND OF BIRTH CONTROL other than abstinence.

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Newsflash. McCaine/Palin now lead Obama/Biden by 2 points!
Sarah Palin’s favorabilty ratings now exceed McCains AND OBAMAS

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Newsflash: the only poll that counts is the one on Election Day.

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PJ,
Do a google search on Palin + Contraception. There are many articles stating her position. It’s amazing how many of her positions are completely opposite of the positions stated in the liberal blogoshere.
Here is one by the LA Times about her contraception position:
http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-sexed6-2008sep06,0,3119305.story

“The Republican vice presidential candidate (Palin) says students should be taught about condoms. Her running mate — and the party platform — disagree.”
“I’m pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues,” she said during a debate in Juneau.

If any of you are interested in being fair instead of blindly partisan, you could actually research her positions in depth before believing what you read on blogs.

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Palin appears to disagree with McCain on sex education

The Republican vice presidential candidate says students should be taught about condoms. Her running mate — and the party platform — disagree.
By Seema Mehta
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

September 6, 2008

Teen pregnancy and sex education were thrust into the spotlight this week when Republican vice presidential nominee Sarah Palin revealed that her 17-year-old daughter is five months pregnant.

Palin’s running mate, John McCain, and the GOP platform say children should be taught that abstinence until marriage is the only safe way to avoid pregnancy and disease. Palin’s position is less clear.

In a widely quoted 2006 survey she answered during her gubernatorial campaign, Palin said she supported abstinence-until-marriage programs. But weeks later, she proclaimed herself “pro-contraception” and said condoms ought to be discussed in schools alongside abstinence.

“I’m pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues,” she said during a debate in Juneau.

Such statements could raise concerns among social conservatives who have been some of Palin’s most enthusiastic supporters since she was tapped for the No. 2 spot on the GOP ticket last week.

Leslee Unruh, president of the National Abstinence Clearinghouse and campaign manager of the Vote Yes for Life effort, said children must be given a “clear and concise” message on the benefits of abstinence.

Asked about Palin’s statement, Unruh said, “I don’t think it’s clear. It seems disjointed to me.”

Two days later, Unruh dismissed the comments as “old.”

“I support her in every way,” she said.

Other conservatives who have backed Palin, including James Dobson of Focus on the Family, declined to weigh in.

Palin spokeswoman Maria Comella said the governor stands by her 2006 statement, supporting sex education that covers both abstinence and contraception.

McCain’s campaign did not respond to questions about whether Palin’s position is inconsistent with his. But earlier, a campaign spokesperson said McCain believes abstinence is “the only safe and responsible alternative.”

“To do otherwise is to send a mixed signal to children that, on the one hand they should not be sexually active, but on the other, here is the way to go about it,” according to a statement provided by the campaign. “As any parent knows, ambiguity and equivocation leads to problems when it comes to teaching children right from wrong.”

Even before Palin released a statement about her daughter Bristol, teen pregnancy had been in the spotlight frequently this year. The teen birth rate, which had been declining for 15 years, showed an increase in new data released in July. One month earlier, 17-year-old actress Jamie Lynn Spears gave birth to a daughter, distressing parents who worried about the message it would send to young fans. And early in the year, the film “Juno” won an Oscar, prompting critics to accuse Hollywood of glamorizing teen pregnancy.

Sex education varies widely across the nation’s school districts.

In California, the state Education Code does not allow abstinence-only programs in public schools, so if a school offers sex education, it must include discussion of contraception as well as abstinence. About 96% of the state’s schools offer sex education. All schools are required to educate older children about HIV/AIDS, and those discussions must cite both abstinence and condoms as methods of preventing infection.

The federal government has spent more than $1 billion on the abstinence-only message since 1996 under a program created by Congress as part of welfare reform. California is the only state to have declined to take part in the program since its inception. In recent years, states that had taken part in the program have decided to forgo the funding and the restrictions that come with it.

Palin’s statements date to her 2006 gubernatorial run. In July of that year, she completed a candidate questionnaire that asked, would she support funding for abstinence-until-marriage programs instead of “explicit sex-education programs, school-based clinics and the distribution of contraceptives in schools?”

Palin wrote, “Yes, the explicit sex-ed programs will not find my support.”

But in August of that year, Palin was asked during a KTOO radio debate if “explicit” programs include those that discuss condoms. Palin said no and called discussions of condoms “relatively benign.”

“Explicit means explicit,” she said. “No, I’m pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues. So I am not anti-contraception. But, yeah, abstinence is another alternative that should be discussed with kids. I don’t have a problem with that. That doesn’t scare me, so it’s something I would support also.”

So it would seem that Palin was for abstinence only birth control before she was against it. And just what are “explicit ” sex ed programs? Ahem. I guess Bristol Palin didn’t get the memo.

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All I can say is WOW. Guys and Gals your not gonna convince PJ to agree with your views. why? well for 1 he’s a far left liberal, obviously. He seems to like the attention, plus just like the far left, when they are told the facts, they do what PJ does, they mask it with more garbage and they seem to have an answer for everything.

Problem lies with the Media, it lies with the bloggers, it lies with Hollywood stars, who are so far out of touch with reality when it comes to anything Real Life. Prime example of out of touch and very ignorant people is the comment that was made by Whoopdeedoo Goldberg on the view when she commented on Slavery. That lady has been smoking way to much of that Hollywood crack, but it isn’t just her, alot of people in Hollywood are just as ignorant as she is. What do they really have to worry about. They are Filthy rich, they don’t worry about what us real people have to worry about, such as paying bills, feeding and clothing our kids, losing our homes.

Democrats and liberals share the same values, they believe everything the Media tells them and what they read in the National Enquirer, they make comments about the War in Iraq, but they will be the last people you will ever see volunteer to protect this country, but they act like they are experts on what goes on in the military and what goes on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

PJ I know you think this is a personal attack, but it’s not. You talk about Palin as if you and others who share your view have no issues in your lives of your own, and you sir need to wake up to reality.

Obama and Biden are just waiting in the shadows to turn our country into a Socialist country, they want more government control, they want us to get rid of the dollar and jump onboard the European train. If memory serves me correctly, did we not have a war to prevent this. I think it was called the “American Revolutionary War”, Obama and Biden want us to learn other languages besides English in a country that speaks English. Im sorry I live in America, I speak English, why in the hell should I have to learn anyone else’s language. They want to live in this country, then then can learn our language. I don’t want to live in Mexico, Germany, France, Russia, etc etc, if I did, then yes I should learn their language.

I also don’t want the government running my life by controlling Health Care, Oil, T.V, how many kids Im allowed to have with my wife, not allowing me to carry a firearm to protect my family from harm.

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Hey John you know what? I don’t want McCain-Palin telling me that I can’t have an abortion if I so choose (yeah, I’m a woman!). And I want my daughter’s and my neighbor’s kids to have the same freedom of choice. I don’t want Supreme Court Justices appointed who think they have the right to look into my uterus.

Eight years of Republican rule and this is what we have: a tanking economy (with gov’t bailouts, who’s gonna pay for that, YOU AND ME, BUSTER), a war with no end in sight, foreclosures up the wahoo, bank failures, inflation, I mean, do I have make you a list?

Look, if you want more of the same old crapola, please, vote for Bush Lite. But don’t come crying to me when you get buyers remorse.

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WOW PJ please tell me your not serious. Republicans didn’t jack up our economy, your friends the Democrats the Clinton’s who signed into NAFTA did that all on their own. Every since then jobs have left this country left and right. Do you know what Obama’s voting record was for 130 times? He voted PRESENT he didn’t vote yes or no because he couldn’t make a decision.

About abortion, if having the abortion would save the mother from dying, then yes that seems legit to me, to abort because the girl’s parents crappy parenting skills were null and void and lacked the morals to teach their kids to keep their legs closed until they were ready to have a kid then abortion would never be an issue, would it? you may not like what I say about it, but people wouldn’t have to worry about abortions if they learned to keep their legs closed.

2 of your Supreme Court Justices were appointed by your buddies the Clinton’s.

About the WAR, have you ever been in the military? I don’t mean your kids, your cousins, your uncle, I mean you personally. I have been in the military and guess what, that was my decision to do so. I was in the 1st Gulf War. WAR is not pretty, people die, its not the girl scouts like you might be use to, also guess what do a history check and you will see many more people have died in past War’s,So despite all the garbage the media tosses out to you. thats all it is, a bunch of garbage.

Foreclosures is not anyone in perticulars fault, it could be the governments fault, it could be the consumers fault, some people loss their jobs, not because of Republican Rule, because again thanks to your NAFTA signing Democrats the Clintons.

Hate to break it to you though, but Obama and Biden are both for big government.

Republicans: Little Government, Big People

Democrats: Big Government, Little People

This means that Democrats believe their should be laws and regulations for most of what people do. This makes it easier to determine what is right and wrong. They believe in Government assistance for most people that are poor. They believe that the federal government should have an active role in how we live our lives.

Republicans believe that there should be less laws and regulations towards people. They believe that people should be trusted to make the right decisions. They do not believe the government should play a role in our everyday lives. Assistance should be limited, guess what the means lots and lots of the bailouts you speak of.

Seriously you got to do your homework better when your debating with someone on Facts, but I bet I will get a debated response from you because this is commonly what liberals do, their mouth’s move quicker than their brains.

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“Republicans believe that there should be less laws and regulations towards people. They believe that people should be trusted to make the right decisions. They do not believe the government should play a role in our everyday lives. Assistance should be limited, guess what the means lots and lots of the bailouts you speak of.”

I have one word for you: AIG.

Come back when your mother puts some long pants on you.

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PJ PJ PJ, How old are you? Momma cracks, wow, yep that says alot about your intelligence level, but prooves even more that I got under your skin, because you can’t debate with me, instead of thinking logically like an adult, you thought unlogically like a 3 year old crying for some candy.

AIG Bailout came from the government, yes, but guess who controlls Congress, Democrats..ie Nancy Pelosi, what are Obama and Biden? Democrats, what are Democrats for?

Democrats: Big Government, Little People

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